tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post1550023326306330849..comments2024-03-18T21:55:56.412-07:00Comments on The Disaffected Lib: Who Says Progressive Values Defy Definition.? Oh Yeah, that Guy.The Mound of Soundhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-83669611217026688192017-03-18T19:58:28.975-07:002017-03-18T19:58:28.975-07:00Indeed, it was in part a mass reaction to the righ...Indeed, it was in part a mass reaction to the rightward drift of the NDP, most visible in the New Politics Initiative, that brought Layton to the leadership. Many were, in the medium term, disappointed in what they got . . . but more on the basis that he didn't do enough than from any idea that he was even further right than the NDP had already become by the time he arrived.<br />Of course now he's a saint, so lots of people have forgotten they ever had the tiniest problem with him. But while it's good to avoid too much hagiography of "le bon Jack", I think claiming he actually pushed the party to the right is a false revisionism.Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-78636486809920465302017-03-18T19:52:24.378-07:002017-03-18T19:52:24.378-07:00As a side note, it seems like a lot of people who ...As a side note, it seems like a lot of people who stopped paying attention to the NDP after Broadbent stepped down assume that it shifted to the right under Jack Layton, presumably because when they started paying attention to it under Jack Layton, there it was rightward of where it had been under Broadbent.<br />I do not believe this to be the case at all. To the contrary, the party drifted rightwards under the leaderships of McLaughlin and McDonough, although I've never been clear if it was because they were furthe to the right themselves or because they were weak leaders who didn't really set a direction and so what took over was a certain institutional drift, in which an increasingly professionalized NDP was "managed" according to the Blairite conventional wisdom of the time.<br /><br />Jack Layton actually stopped this rightward drift for a time and pulled the party somewhat back to the left (although certainly not as much as some of his supporters, myself included, might have preferred) and considerably greenwards. He had a knack for promoting fairly significant government intervention in commonsensical terms that made them seem non-dangerous, but essentially the Layton vision came down to green Keynesianism: The government as employer of last resort, spending money directly or semi-directly to create a new green infrastructure (including new green social housing) and increase energy efficiency. Watered down versions of this vision are now almost conventional wisdom, but Layton was the first to popularize this approach in Canada, at a time when the idea of government doing useful things was essentially off the table, and he seemed to want to do it <b>for real</b>, as opposed to most politicians who enjoy the platitudes and the ability to claim this is what they're doing any time the pork is being dished out for a new transit line. He also advocated some sort of green industrial policy, something that has been pretty much completely abandoned by every political party since.<br /><br />Mulcair did move to the right again, and would probably have gone further if it hadn't been pretty clear that the public mood had shifted since the glory days of public acceptance of neoliberalism.<br /><br />(Broadbent himself, although I think he's basically a good guy, was not exactly on the left of the NDP back in the day, and was involved in the expulsion of the Waffle. But he's still probably to the left of much of the party now, just because there's been so much drift in the Overton Window; Pierre Trudeau's policies in the seventies were far to the left of what most New Democrats would dare talk about in public today)Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-63542147025734093402017-03-15T12:59:23.329-07:002017-03-15T12:59:23.329-07:00That's right, Mound. I believe that if we don...That's right, Mound. I believe that if we don't understand what motivates these shills, we can be fooled into taking them seriously.John B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-3886954145373672392017-03-15T08:52:30.815-07:002017-03-15T08:52:30.815-07:00I haven't heard anything remotely progressive ...<br />I haven't heard anything remotely progressive from the voices you cite, John. They're populist, to be sure, but that's far removed from progressive.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-23341147923207965622017-03-15T08:50:34.580-07:002017-03-15T08:50:34.580-07:00All that work Anon, all that pathetic vitriol, and...All that work Anon, all that pathetic vitriol, and for nothing. I had to invoke the "sty pig" rule again so, once again, your anony-ass is toast. The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-43317335261170172402017-03-15T02:06:11.068-07:002017-03-15T02:06:11.068-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-26016121419193513882017-03-15T01:11:15.193-07:002017-03-15T01:11:15.193-07:00It's getting so that I can't tell the left...It's getting so that I can't tell the leftards from the S-Ps.<br /><br />Great observation: "due to its rejection by the right".<br /><br /><br />Or at least by those who self-identify that way.<br /><br />So let's allow progressivism continue to be defined by Rush, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter and the others "bought and paid for" who have an audience and the personal security and prosperity that derives from sucking up to those with economic power. My definition evolves to some extent from listening to what they say on the subject with an understanding of what they are.John B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-24667752872000877062017-03-14T19:45:56.199-07:002017-03-14T19:45:56.199-07:00wk = collaboratorwk = collaboratorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com