tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post616243875810413313..comments2024-03-22T05:20:44.167-07:00Comments on The Disaffected Lib: The Revenge of Karl MarxThe Mound of Soundhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-43656302662595436962013-12-09T21:27:32.997-08:002013-12-09T21:27:32.997-08:00Heheh. Yes, actually, that is one that I really s...Heheh. Yes, actually, that is one that I really should put my hands on. Cheerio!Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-1668213865711486652013-12-09T11:53:03.417-08:002013-12-09T11:53:03.417-08:00@ Owen. It makes you wonder why the Libs and NDP ...@ Owen. It makes you wonder why the Libs and NDP aren't championing collective bargaining rights. Unionism is being clubbed with a cudgel and the parties that should be populist are watching, mute, from the sidelines.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-76011156813837366682013-12-09T11:51:31.571-08:002013-12-09T11:51:31.571-08:00@ PLG - Marxism is an odd term, having been bundle...@ PLG - Marxism is an odd term, having been bundled and trade marked and used to describe a government style he probably would not have endorsed.<br /><br />It's worthwhile studying the progressive era in the U.S. that began at the turn of the last century and extended, arguably, at least into the 1960s or 1970s. That movement was helped along by the Great Depression and by WWII which saw labour shortages in the U.S. that led to modern unionism. All three forces, according to writers like Gar Alperovitz, were essential to the rise of the American middle class in the post-war era.<br /><br />This time, however, capital has 'captured' the political process to the 'bought and paid for' Congress to the decidedly corporatist Supreme Court.<br /><br />BTW, at the risk of urging you to read yet another book, you might find it interesting to glance through Alperovitz' "What then must we do?" in which he outlines how worker co-operatives are catching on and succeeding in the U.S.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-66491791561936778112013-12-09T11:43:16.223-08:002013-12-09T11:43:16.223-08:00No, Lorne, no one is listening and that holds true...No, Lorne, no one is listening and that holds true for us as much as any other country. We're going to push this until something breaks.<br /><br />What we're watching unfold seems so much like Jared Diamond's description of societal collapse in the past - Easter Islanders, the Mayans. As he observes, societies collapse very abruptly and always at their peak.<br /><br />It's a damned shitty thing we're doing to our kids.<br />The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-14684328738522568812013-12-09T11:24:04.650-08:002013-12-09T11:24:04.650-08:00Simon reminds us, Mound, that it was the tension b...Simon reminds us, Mound, that it was the tension between capital and labour that made for a healthy society.<br /><br />When capital seeks to destroy labour, it brings down the whole edifice.Owen Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06464860078574618579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-48300457506568309432013-12-09T11:12:16.997-08:002013-12-09T11:12:16.997-08:00In my view, Mound, the ugliest aspects of unfetter...In my view, Mound, the ugliest aspects of unfettered capitalism began to make a return with the fall of the Soviet Union. Once that foe was 'defeated,' capitalism no longer had any incentive to 'play nice;' you will remember, for example, that there was talk around that time of the 'peace dividend,', the chimeric concept that money that had been devoted to fighting the 'enemy' could now find its way into benefiting society. To no one's surprise, that dividend never materialized.<br /><br />Similarly, once capitalism no longer had to compete with Communism, it had no real incentive to treat workers with any kind of dignity or fairness - the forging of free-trade agreements simply legitimized the deluge of jobs shipped offshore.<br /><br />Simon's observations and warnings are well-considered, but is anyone really listening?Lornehttp://www.politicsanditsdiscontents.blogspot.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-59668852035053979162013-12-09T11:07:38.189-08:002013-12-09T11:07:38.189-08:00It's an interesting article, but it's oddl...It's an interesting article, but it's oddly old fashioned somehow. I mean, this guy remembers how things used to be, but wouldn't have much to say to a modern lefty in a way. There's this whole schematic where left = unions and/or central government, and capital is completely separate, and so there can only be capitalism or central planning (where unions fit into central planning I'm not clear). These are the only things there are and therefore since central planning failed, capitalism is necessary and eternal (it should just be contested more).<br /><br />Workers could never, for instance, autonomously control their workplaces, holding the capital themselves. So no room for co-operatives in his box of "how things can work". His heart's in the right place, but I'm imagining a young person saying "Dude, the wall fell 20 years ago. I was three. Progressives have moved on, you know?"Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-77555096862293965042013-12-09T10:51:06.962-08:002013-12-09T10:51:06.962-08:00Marxism is this odd term. Most of Marx's ener...Marxism is this odd term. Most of Marx's energy was spent analyzing capitalism, how it worked, why it was problematic. He seems to have had an amazing amount of that stuff right.<br /><br />Some of Marx's energy was spent advocating something different which would be sort of socialistic only more so. Near as I can figure it, his prescriptive side was vague enough that it's hard to say whether it's "been tried" or what it would really mean to "try" Marxism. At a minimum, I'd have to say positive Marxism is a vague enough label that it could be represented by a very wide range of possible non-capitalist thingies. Some of those would be very bad but potentially some might be very good.<br /><br />Marxism, socialism, Anarchism, vague modern progressivism all call for the people to be in charge. The core problem in the end is: But how? How do you actually arrange that, make it stick, and still get things done? The Soviets had some ideas on that; they didn't work. The Cubans have some ideas on that; I'm not wild about them but their system is still evolving and I'd have to say the jury's still out. The Bolivarians are in the early stages. We'll see. There are some very positive things happening, but some contradictions too. I wish them well, that's for sure.Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.com