tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post8101867276619956437..comments2024-03-22T05:20:44.167-07:00Comments on The Disaffected Lib: A Quick End to the Pipeline DebateThe Mound of Soundhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-5961169713220302016-01-25T05:49:59.997-08:002016-01-25T05:49:59.997-08:00"Calling Kinsella Liberal Loudmouth these day..."Calling Kinsella Liberal Loudmouth these days is not fair nor accurate anymore I would argue."<br /><br />I would agree let's just call him Liberal and Obnoxious.Ben Burdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06372169478978720740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-67953082888822898312016-01-24T14:07:02.089-08:002016-01-24T14:07:02.089-08:00Mound, this was a gestimation based on my chemistr...Mound, this was a gestimation based on my chemistry background.<br />In any case, if there is no in-situ refining, bitumen must be pumped and then refined. Carbon cost of building refinery (good for 30+ years) is a one time deal. An those construction and refinery operation are good jobs. This assumes that we are going to process Alberta's muck, which is more carbon intensive than nearly any crude on the planet...<br />A..nonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-35541644889184476322016-01-24T10:22:31.992-08:002016-01-24T10:22:31.992-08:00Calling Kinsella Liberal Loudmouth these days is n...Calling Kinsella Liberal Loudmouth these days is not fair nor accurate anymore I would argue. Kinsella is neither involved nor particularly welcome within the Trudeau Liberal leadership circles, or in fact the bulk of the party as it currently exists. He is these days more of an outsider looking in with his connections from the Chretien years, and these days you don't see a lot of Chretienites at the party anymore. I also suspect there is a lot of less than warm fuzzies for the Chretienites given how Chretien who allowed Adscam to happen under his watch made sure to stick Martin with it guaranteeing his short term government and the following decade of darkness. I'm also not sure his politics really are in line with the Trudeau Liberals, he repeatedly either misread or underestimated choices made by Trudeau prior and during the last election and how they would work with the electorate, I recall in particular his disbelief in the deficit spending policy choice in the election being a good one, he called it rolling snake eyes and didn't believe it was something that would work. He did throw out a sheet anchor, but clearly as a pro forma cover one's bets move, not one he actually believed in.<br /><br />Throughout the election Kinsella repeatedly misread the Liberal approach, strategy, and chances for success. He repeatedly made clear his issues with Trudeau's choices and directions. Kinsella has shown he is clearly not a member of the current Liberal inner circles, and has limited access if any at all, and therefore holding him up as any indicator of the thinking of this Trudeau government is, in my view, not only wrongheaded but disconnected from reality based on these reasons.<br /><br />Kinsella has in the past had some good political analysis skills, especially for tactical thinking, but as of late especially with federal politics he has to my eyes become far less so. I still read him and occasionally comment there because I find some value from it, but I would never call Kinsella representative of the Trudeau Libs nor even overly friendly to them. He may well be a member of the party in good standing membershipwise, but in terms of actual influence and connections, I'm just not seeing it anymore. I think that in that respect his day has passed, and the choices he made over the last couple of years may well have made that a permanent reality, time will tell on that point.<br /><br />I do think Kinsella has his uses even now, and his POV can have some value, I'm just not comfortable with the idea that it has much if any value being cast as representative of the current Liberal party, leadership, and government. As I said, in that I think he is very much an outsider looking in and not one to be soon welcomed back into the fold given his record on Trudeau and his judgment and decisions over the past couple of years. Basically I don't think you can use him as representing what the Trudeau Libs are, I think there is simply too much disconnect and distance there for that to be reasonable. My only real question is were the bridges burned down entirely or only badly burned yet still have some means for crossing, metaphorically speaking of course.Scotianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06284856315992405261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-26630555391838400292016-01-24T09:34:53.143-08:002016-01-24T09:34:53.143-08:00@ Sal - I agree that we need to focus on self-suff...@ Sal - I agree that we need to focus on self-sufficiency in priority to export markets.<br /><br />As for bitumen royalties, Alberta complains they're so low because they don't have sufficient pipeline access to make Tar Sands bitumen available to competitive bidders. The Americans, we're told, are screwing us.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-23965730524348679562016-01-24T09:29:32.835-08:002016-01-24T09:29:32.835-08:00I don't know about your refining versus transp...<br />I don't know about your refining versus transportation emissions analysis A..non. Have you got anything on that?<br /><br />Refining bitumen to diesel is a good start, albeit pretty small.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-61422220653838600632016-01-23T20:54:43.204-08:002016-01-23T20:54:43.204-08:00.. I'm fed up with hearing and reading the ter..... I'm fed up with hearing and reading the term 'tidewater' a marine or naval term.. used to avoid saying 'the British Columbia coast' .. its a creepy political end around euphamism. They don't mention Communist China in the same sentence, or dilbit or diluted bitumen either. Its just mutated into 'bringing our resources to tidewater' ... If you think I'm angry about the phony convoluted way they talk.. you may wonder how angry I am at what they get away with doing.<br /><br />If the damn bitumen is so valuable, why do we essentially give it away to China. to fuel their economy? Alberta gets minimal royalties, Big Energy gets the profit.. and Canada imports our neccessary petroleum.. Its bizzaro. Of course Alberta should be refining on site.. its an f'n wasteland that will never be remediated properly or completely... who do they think they're kidding. So refine up there and use existing pipeline to transport far far lighter component petroleum products to eager Canadian markets. Do not expand beyond the needs of Canadians.. unless its obvious border states that are not too ravenous. <br /><br />Cease and desist re the fallacy of Energy Superpower.. even if there were staggering $$ to be made, you can't eat money. And you can't make enough money to detoxify our water, air, lands and peoples... our living environment. Live within our mesns and look after our country. Mind our own business as much as is reasonably possible.<br /><br />While Alberta is doing that.. with the support of the other provinces. lets see British Columbia stop stripping out their forests for China and start rebuilding a real lumber industry to supply Canada with raw logs and lumber.. and viable border states etc. Fishing? Same deal.. start enhancing and supporting our natural fisheries.. both coastal and inland freshwater. We know where wheat grows too, just like we know where corn and dsiry go together. In so many sectors, we know we can export.. of course there are markets.. but Canada and Canadians need to be as self sufficient as possible.. airtight in fact.. and screwing with our freshwater resources and our living environment is reckless, dangerous.. and the road to disaster.<br /><br />I'll choose common sense over economics every time. Would I want to live beside a farmer or an economist during hard times? Hell, during good times I'd choose the farmer, or a teacher, or a mechanic, a nurse, a baker, a biologist ..the salamanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06853337802990122289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-86792056676909885422016-01-23T18:08:33.633-08:002016-01-23T18:08:33.633-08:00My take is that "The added energy used in ref...My take is that "The added energy used in refining means even more greenhouse gas emissions..." would be actually less energy than pumping the crude for 4000 km.<br /><br />Also, I heard that new upgrader worth ~ 8bn would be operational soon in Alberta an process 50,000 barrels a day into diesel but not gasoline.<br />As for lack of full size refineries in Alberta... One of the factors could be desire of our southern neighbour to keep Canada off (energy) balance...<br />A..nonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-58894367915155451952016-01-23T14:15:00.423-08:002016-01-23T14:15:00.423-08:00@ Ben. Never think you walk alone on this one, Ben...@ Ben. Never think you walk alone on this one, Ben. There are plenty of genuinely progressive Liberal supporters, not to mention just about every New Dem I've had the pleasure to know, who recognize the obvious. It makes me laugh that he routinely drapes himself with the mantle of "progressive." Perhaps he even believes it although I can't imagine the basis for that extreme a delusion.<br /><br />I knew nothing of him until, during the Mulroney-Chretien years, he was parachuted in to run for the Liberals in my riding in North Vancouver. He was up against a Reformer, a little garden gnome of a fellow originally from New Zealand if I recall correctly. My party's candidate conducted himself so foolishly, aggressively so, that he made a lot of committed Liberals feel sorry for the Reformer, almost wishing Manning's guy to win - which he did, handily. To my undying shame I voted for the Liberal Loudmouth although I was relieved that the other guy won.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-76673627694118953682016-01-23T13:38:52.207-08:002016-01-23T13:38:52.207-08:00The sooner LiberalLoudmouth is exposed as a crass ...The sooner LiberalLoudmouth is exposed as a crass loud and nasty partisan the better. Just because he has a website wherein he postulates Liberal arrogance and the supremacy of the Natural Ruling Party and has a propensity to sue people rather than dismiss them as idiots means that he can easily be classified as a cyberbully.<br /><br />And here I thought that I was the only one who didn't think the sun shines out of his arse - thanks Mound.Ben Burdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06372169478978720740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-88212364460960373922016-01-23T11:28:55.885-08:002016-01-23T11:28:55.885-08:00The news media, including CBC, never calls it dilb...The news media, including CBC, never calls it <i>dilbit</i> or <i>diluted bitumen</i>. Instead, I keep hearing that the pipelines need to be built to carry oil to one or another destination. This is dishonest. It sounds so harmless; we have been transporting oil by pipe for a long time. Watching The National it is very easy to think that pipelines make sense. We are being conned. <br /> Tobynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-39328335544072373002016-01-23T10:29:09.215-08:002016-01-23T10:29:09.215-08:00Absolutely. This Wild Rose dude has no concern at ...Absolutely. This Wild Rose dude has no concern at all to make Canada oil independent, no concern that we get crude from the USA or other oil regions. His only concern is to get three pipelines to seaside for export, maximize profit and minimize jobs and taxes. What are the "ethical" nations wanting the dilbit....exactly!Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10067723500833829420noreply@blogger.com