tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post8239057777042333084..comments2024-03-22T05:20:44.167-07:00Comments on The Disaffected Lib: Like Pissing Into the WindThe Mound of Soundhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-31348722805640714552008-05-22T23:40:00.000-07:002008-05-22T23:40:00.000-07:00A party which can't stand sensible criticism of fa...A party which can't stand sensible criticism of faulty leadership is in trouble. Not discussing these issues is what's genuinely self-defeating. I'd prefer to step out of the cave, chum. I want this party back where it belongs and that's going to require keeping our heads out of the sand.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-29531396639714732992008-05-22T19:21:00.000-07:002008-05-22T19:21:00.000-07:00The Liberals get the most positive attention they'...The Liberals get the most positive attention they've had in months, throw the government on the defensive, get broad-based support for Dion's proposal, and then a crappy "do you like teddy bears" online poll comes out and you want to ditch everything and run back into the cave?<BR/><BR/>That would be dumb and short-sighted.<BR/><BR/>The leadership discussion is self-defeating.petroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07149820950905264744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-28083803487417441922008-05-22T16:08:00.000-07:002008-05-22T16:08:00.000-07:00Well Kursk, good of you to stop by if only so we c...Well Kursk, good of you to stop by if only so we can all be reminded of the greasy little vulgarians we contend with from time to time. I was going to delete your sophomoric comments as offensive but I'll leave them up for a while so we can all get a good look at you. Kursk - that's right, blew itself up and went straight to the bottom. Good choice.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-62363016874813838632008-05-22T15:48:00.000-07:002008-05-22T15:48:00.000-07:00"A Dion loss will set back the cause of savin' ol'..."A Dion loss will set back the cause of savin' ol' Mother Earth. I'm not sure whether the worst part of the setback will be the thwarting of a carbon tax or more years of a Harper's anti-Earth policies."<BR/><BR/>Who-ee yourself Jimbobby!..gotta stop drink'in your sister wife's bathtub crank..<BR/><BR/>Seems to me i didn't hear a lot of squealing from greens or reds when the Liberals had two consecutive majorities, and failed to 'save the earth' when they had the chance..a certain Liberal leader was a big part of that i recall..but you know, he just didn't get it done..KURSKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00286593811913745188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-85101334513927428732008-05-22T13:02:00.000-07:002008-05-22T13:02:00.000-07:00Whooee! It's a scary prospect, Mound. I don't like...Whooee! It's a scary prospect, Mound. I don't like the idea of pinnin' the best hope for the environment on the worst hope for election. <BR/><BR/>We Greens have been pushin' tax-shifting and a carbon tax for years. We've tripled our polling numbers over those years and 30% of Canadians say the GPC would be best able to mange the environmental file.<BR/><BR/>A Dion loss will set back the cause of savin' ol' Mother Earth. I'm not sure whether the worst part of the setback will be the thwarting of a carbon tax or more years of a Harper's anti-Earth policies. <BR/><BR/>Then again, Dion could surprise everyone. What he needs is a Power Point roadshow with a catchy title like "An Inconvenient Tax." <BR/><BR/>JBJimBobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04603665575714484326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-71452165864692837452008-05-22T12:19:00.000-07:002008-05-22T12:19:00.000-07:00"The carbon tax has a problem"Gee, do ya think ?"The carbon tax has a problem"<BR/><BR/>Gee, do ya think ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-56764675801236489862008-05-22T11:03:00.000-07:002008-05-22T11:03:00.000-07:00One more point, Scott. You hit it on the head whe...One more point, Scott. You hit it on the head when you wrote "I think this is exactly the type of issue and the type of stand he needs to take to turn this bad image some have of him around."<BR/><BR/>You're saying he ought to exploit this even if he can't sell it and dooms the carbon initiative in the process. That's just exploiting it as a political opportunity, not doing what's necessary to have the initiative succeed. The same feckless approach Dion used when he folded on Afghanistan.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-16404052181091149292008-05-22T10:58:00.000-07:002008-05-22T10:58:00.000-07:00Scott, I understand there's no way to force Dion o...Scott, I understand there's no way to force Dion out and I wouldn't want to see an insurrection in any case. We've made our bed....<BR/><BR/>What concerns me is the prospect of Dion transforming the general election into a referendum on carbon tax. He can't sell that deal. He doesn't have the public confidence and political capital. In other words, he risks dooming the entire carbon tax initiative if he exploits it in an election. That's not right.<BR/><BR/>I realize that he's folded on just about everything else, certainly in the public's eye, but that was an obvious consequence of the decisions he's made on every confidence vote that's come along. That doesn't mean he has to screw up the GHG fight to try to save his political neck.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-4764007432773480362008-05-22T10:30:00.000-07:002008-05-22T10:30:00.000-07:00a) Well MOS, there is no internal mechanism to rem...a) Well MOS, there is no internal mechanism to remove a leader that's been newly elected till after an election.. not before. And you should know this. Plus, our image as a party gets worse if we were try this stunt of dropping a leader before he's even been given the chance in a general election. Not even the famously backstabbing Tories and Reform Party stooped to that ignominy.<BR/><BR/>b) This is Angus-Reid.. its an online poll... I put little faith in them.<BR/><BR/>c) I've already seen newspapers editorials like the Gazette in Montreal praising Dion for having the political courage to present this. I think this is exactly the type of issue and the type of stand he needs to take to turn this bad image some have of him around.<BR/><BR/>d) It's a good thing bloggers weren't around in 1990-93 when Chretien was the newly elected leader of the party. The divisions in Quebec and such over him were a lot worse.. yet he toughed it out and the rest is history.Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-73975040783605535392008-05-22T10:11:00.000-07:002008-05-22T10:11:00.000-07:00I'm sorry you're so upset Anon9:14 but that can't ...I'm sorry you're so upset Anon9:14 but that can't be helped. If you don't like the TorStar poll, come up with some poll - any poll - that shows Dion has the popularity and political capital to force a referendum/election on the carbon tax idea. <BR/><BR/>At this point I'm far more concerned about the irreparable damage a Dion referendum might cause than the dismal fate that awaits him in a general election.<BR/><BR/>His job wasn't over when he won the leadership, it only began. His real job was to win the support of the electorate so he could lead the LPC back to power and no matter how much they may upset you, poll after poll have shown he doesn't have what it takes to win over the Canadian public. <BR/><BR/>So, unless you can find some way to multiply Dion-supporter votes four or five fold, you ought to do what the rest of us are doing - scouting about for someone strong enough to carry the torch.<BR/><BR/>My pick is Louise Arbour if we can get her. If not, I think we could do an awful lot worse than having Romeo Dallaire leave the senate to run for the job.<BR/><BR/>It's one thing not to be prime ministerial material but it's another altogether not to be suitable as an opposition leader.<BR/><BR/>So, Anon, please show me some indication that the Canadian public would actually vote for Dion especially on what could be a suicidal issue.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-12662927368291317922008-05-22T09:58:00.000-07:002008-05-22T09:58:00.000-07:00Sorry to disappoint you "Anon" but the writing is ...Sorry to disappoint you "Anon" but the writing is on the wall and MoS has nailed the most salient problem with Dion as confirmed by the latest poll results — which are just part of an ongoing trend. Time to man up and face the music.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-4977036544555168442008-05-22T09:22:00.000-07:002008-05-22T09:22:00.000-07:00Mr Dion has and is the sacrificial lamb, much the ...Mr Dion has and is the sacrificial lamb, much the same way John Turner was. There was a reason Rock/Manley/Tobin/McKenna didnt want the leadership job. Push for a fall election, keep it to a minority, resign and keep your dignity. billgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-80335015193219899112008-05-22T09:14:00.000-07:002008-05-22T09:14:00.000-07:00i CANNOT believe you would take an angus reid toro...i CANNOT believe you would take an angus reid toronto star poll as FACT...this is a farce...it is a bunch of conservative hacks voting just as their talking points to phone in shows....I think Dion has turned things around....get off his back...Gramps..I believe you would be foolish to believe this as accurate and I am deeply disappointed in the lastest blog from RED TORY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32931256.post-49578193342840888432008-05-22T09:13:00.000-07:002008-05-22T09:13:00.000-07:00To try to sell carbon tax at this time is politic...To try to sell carbon tax at this time is political suicide anyway. It will be worse for Dion. A party in power has to convince the Canadina public for the need of such a tax. To try to win election on that will be just a big fat noose - no noose is the best noose as we all know.LeDarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12526776746689708239noreply@blogger.com