Wednesday, July 18, 2018

Would Impeachment Trigger a Breakdown of Civil Society in the US?

Insurrection has never been far from the surface since Donald Trump chose to seek America's presidency.  During the final stage of the election campaign he whipped up his Gullibillies with stories of how the election was rigged and warnings of Trump's crew taking to the streets should Clinton win.

Recent polls (there've been a few) show how grievously divided Americans have become about their president and the path on which he has steered their country. Some contend America has not been this divided since the Civil War.

Chris Hedges has warned that his nation has entered a "pre-revolutionary" state although he adds that there's no way of knowing just when upheaval may break out.

Foreign Policy surveyed a gaggle of national security experts whose "consensus opinion" suggested a 30% chance of full blown civil war within five years. Some individual respondents put the likelihood at between 60 and 95 per cent. That, of course, was in March. Much has transpired since then.

In going through these surveys of public opinion I found myself asking what sort of calamity would be needed to restore social cohesion to the American populace. It usually takes some sort of existential seismic event - a world war - to rally diverse groups around the flag.

After Trump's disastrous fiasco in Helsinki, I'm wondering what sort of event would be enough to fracture the already tenuous bonds between America's deeply divided factions.

Remember this is Donald Trump, a man with the scruples of a pit viper. This is the man who said he would refuse to accept the election outcome unless, of course, he won. Would he hesitate to incite his more rabid followers to stage some sort of putsch should proceedings be initiated to impeach him?

Bear in mind this rightwing phenomenon at play today that, despite a rightwing Supreme Court, and the Republicans firmly in control of both houses of Congress and the White House - all three branches of government - still considers Washington their enemy.

Would impeachment be their Harpers Ferry moment, a trigger for civil unrest?


Jay Farquharson said...


Remember during the Muslim Kenyan Usurpers Reign when the Ammosexuals were gonna have a Million Man March to protect their "precious" guns from confiscation and their lovers incarceration in FEMA Camps,

That fell short by 999,850 marchers?

American Civil War Pornhub II is being floated by the Right and some of their complicit Patriot Ponies in the MSM as an attempt to cow left-center Americans into inaction and ensure that Treason Tribble Трамп's regime ends with some minor wrist slapping.

ffibs said...

Harper might of been a closet hiding coward but the homophobic slur is not justified. IMHO

Toby said...

Does the US have civil society? Would impeachment break it? Seriously, I often think of the title of Naomi Kline's book, This Changes Everything. (not much of a book but great title) Global Warming is coming at us like an apocalypse. We will probably see borders changing (well, our children & grand children will). Many, if not all, of the nation states we are used to will break up. Geology will become master again as shorelines recede and farm lands dry up. National governments will lose control. Power will reside with he/she controls the fresh water supply.

Many years ago an acquaintance who happens to be a Gitksan leader warned me that when everything falls apart First Nations peoples will be more likely to survive than the rest of us. His reasoning is that First Nations peoples are closer to the land, have less to fall. There may be something in what he said.

The Mound of Sound said...

Willy, those were merely persistent rumours. Shame, shame on you.

The Mound of Sound said...

The scenario you've outlined has been the stuff of informed opinion and speculation. It's one of those possibilities that can't be ruled out but there would be a lot of repression and violence along the way.

Trailblazer said...

I have brought up the possibility of an America civil war ( III) for many years.
Having grown up in post WWII Britain I could never understand the affluence of the USA and for that matter Canada; that is before I moved here.
North America is the land of perpetual credit/debt that is unsustainable.
As the planets ability to sustain over consumption decreases the planets more privileged squabble over the remains.
These credit/resource impediments to our selfish lifestyles is causing friction on both sides of the atlantic.
Who will break up first, the USA or the EU?
My guess is the USA but that may be just wishful thinking!!


Jay Farquharson said...

The UK's gonna break up first.

Jay Farquharson said...

BTW, Trump is working a deal with Putin to ship Americans who won’t MAGA over to the Lubyanka Prison in Moscow, where they’ll get a complementary bullet to the back of the head.

Trailblazer said...

Re , Putin's offer.

No doubt the USA has interfered with Russian elections ( or tried to)

The outrage of Russian election interference is hilarious.
Why not do , as the USA and UK does, bomb those you dislike to impoverishment and install a new, petrochemical, western aligned leader?


Trailblazer said...

Civil societies have precarious lives...

I migrated from the UK in 1974 and Heathrow airport was full of soldiers with guns and armoured cars.
The Government did not authorise the deployment of the troops!!


Jay Farquharson said...

Putin's thugs phoned Browder with Matnitski's own cell phone, knowing that he would answer the call, and did, so he got to listen to Matnitski's screams as they tortured him to death.

Love your SovCit whataboutism.

Jay Farquharson said...


the salamander said...

.. tip of the iceburg .. ie 'we aint seen nothing yet' ..

the meagre numbers of migrants & refugees, folks seeking asylum in the US, or Canada.. or in Europe is a mere trickle. Wait till there's nuclear fallout, complete drought, climate catastrophy, livestock long since eaten, rising waters, desertification of croplands, faction wars, ethnic cleansing.

The USA has rascists and nazis, white power coming out of the septic tanks.. and flaunting 'open carry' of military grade weaponry. Then there is the 'concealed weapon' brigades.. how does massive flooding of refugees go over with those asshats ? How does it go over with the GOP in their suits and nice shoes & secret mistresses or boyfriends.. or the dyed in the wool evangelicals hoping for the rapture?

Canada of course is powerless in such a scenario.. undefendable borders.. and we sit on the mother load of space, arable land, fresh water. When boatload after boatload arrive from Asia, fleeing whatever they flee from to stay alive.. to presume our 'Immigration' department can do a damn thing is laughable. The migrations into Greece or Italy or Algeria are just a stepping stone process.. a first step to getting where they want to be.. How many can France, Germany or Great Britain handle, even if just 'passing through' ?

In the USA many will be shot by the redneck hordes with pickup trucks, AR15's and unlimited ammo. Excuse the crude expression but the wanderers from strife and starvation will be the 'new 'niggers' to the crackers and redneck losers. How the black population will perceive the migrant wanderers is a good question.. but I suspect it will be with generosity first.. and wonderment

Just imagine some tactical nukes are detonated in Korea.. take your pick, North or South or both.. the prevailing winds flip from Northern to Southern.. so Russia and China will sit on their hands ? Oh sure .. and the refugees from that fallout ? Just think about that .. where will they go.. and how far ?

Anonymous said...

My bet: Trump is going to win so big in November they're going to have to dig deep in the stats to find a similar degree of midterm stamp-of-approval.

Trump delivered on his promises Big Time. Especially on trade. That's how democracy works. Ask the people what they want. If it's reasonable deliver. (Perhaps someone on the Cultural Left will follow Trump's example and find something serious to run on after 55 years of pretending to represent the people.)

That's what started all this Hysteria: Trade. (Black Pills! Get your Black Pills here! Donald J. Trump is bringing living wages to Mexico! This is unspeakable RACIST EVIL! More EVIL than HITLER! Free Black Pills! Come and get 'em while they're HOT!)

When Trump was running in the primaries, various politicians and upper-crust Powers-That-Be would arrange one-on-ones with him:

You're not serious about putting the kibosh on free-trade globalization, are you? It's all just a bunch of empty talk, right? To win the election?

Oh yes. I'm very serious. These trade deals have been terrible for America going back decades - since Nixon went to China, as a matter of fact...

Houston, we have a problem...

In 2019, the Fake News will be spinning different lies. They doubled-down, quadrupled-down, ad-nauseam-upled down on identity politicking and lost Bigly. (The Powers That Be will grow tired of setting mountains of money on fire to move molehills. Better to cook up a serious New Narrative. Losing isn't Winning anymore!)

Purple library guy said...

Salamander, I'm not so sure Asians will be coming here if things fall apart. If things fall apart, trade falls apart. Ownership structures fall apart. At that point, nobody cares that North American multinationals own the factories in Malaysia or Vietnam or the Philippines or Bangladesh; they are now owned by whoever is sitting on them. At which point where would you rather be, the place that imported all the cheap goods from Asia or the place that produces the goods?

Jay Farquharson said...

Вступление в общество США настолько глубокое, что требует очистки. для некоторых это будут глаголы, козырь уже задал прецедент, для других - депортация, опять же, козыри устанавливают прецедент, для многих, однако, их активные меры означают выполнение

Jay Farquharson said...

Asia's already hard hit by climate change. Bangladesh for example, where clothes and IPhone components are sweatshopped, is going to be one of the first countries to disappear under the sea. Those 163 million people will need to go somewhere, and the drying Himalaya's ensures that neither Pakistan or India will have the water.

Purple library guy said...

You have a point.