Wednesday, October 23, 2019

Anybody Remember Joe Clark?

Joe Clark, the 16th prime minister of Canada.

In May, 1979, Joe swept Pierre Trudeau's government out of power, winning a minority government. The PCs swept pretty much everything west of the Ottawa River. It wound up 136 Conservative to 114 Liberal, 26 NDP and 6 Social Credit. There were 282 ridings back then.

I was sitting at home watching TV when Joe came on and told an interviewer that, he might only have a minority but he was going to govern as though he'd won a majority. He was, in effect, daring the opposition to risk incurring the wrath of the Canadian public by bringing him down. Now, in fairness to Joe, he wasn't apt to get a lot of help governing from Pierre Trudeau or Ed Broadbent so he didn't have a lot of choice. Still, the "my way or the highway" approach was pretty gutsy.

Clark's Waterloo came nine months later when, refusing to seek a deal from the SoCreds, he lost a confidence vote on his budget and the country again went to the polls. In February, 1980, Pierre Trudeau's Liberals were returned to office with a majority.

Like Joe, Justin Trudeau says he's not interested in any coalition and he'll govern as a minority. He too is daring the opposition to take him down and force another general election.

How far the Dauphin is prepared to go to test the opposition remains to be seen. One thing Monday's vote showed is that the Canadian public is very concerned about climate change. It's a priority. Scheer's inability to accommodate that may be why the Cons lost critical seats in Ontario and Quebec. Some think it cost him victory.

Justin, of course, is trapped by the infernal Trans Mountain Pipeline. If they play their hand well, the New Dems and Bloc might be able to use that controversy to  bludgeon Trudeau like a Newfie on a baby harp seal.

He may not like it, in fact I'm sure he won't, but Junior is going to have to steer well to the left of where he's been since 2015. And he's going to have to keep his nose very, very clean - prim and proper just like "Caesar's wife."

We'll see soon enough what the Dauphin is made of but he is starting with a bit of baggage.


Anonymous said...

"use that controversy to bludgeon Trudeau like a Newfie on a baby harp seal." At making this kind of comparison, you are just as bad as anyone of those wannabes wanting to run this country. I would not ever, vote for you either.

Simon said...

The dirty old Mound, is a toxic Trudeau hater who has suggested that Trudeau should be raped in jail, so what do you expect? Classy he is not...

The Mound of Sound said...

Still at the same old bullshit, Simon. You are beyond pathetic.

The Mound of Sound said...

Anonymouse, you getting into the sauce a bit early? I wasn't aware I was planning to run nor that I had solicited your support. Am I missing something or should you stick to a nice cup of tea?

The Mound of Sound said...

One other point, Simon. I rarely visit your blog. It's monotonous, boring. Yet I did take a look I think it was last week. You wrote of Cons "drowning in their own excrement." What kind of a twisted mind goes there, Simon, you sanctimonious, self-righteous little shit? You need help, Simon, and plenty of it. Sit down and talk to somebody and get to the depths of your unhinged despair. I'm sure there's still time.

Anonymous said...

Disappointing, sir. Apparently from your lair on Vancouver Island it is not common knowledge that killing baby harp seals has been illegal since 1987. Paul McCartney cuddled one back in 2006, also uninformed on the matter. And everyone wept for something that doesn't happen.

"Nobody is killing those adorable white baby seals
This is, bar none, the most persistent and widespread myth about the Canadian seal hunt. Every year, anti-seal hunt literature is almost guaranteed to include images of white-coated infant harp seals. This is despite the fact that Canada has banned the killing of white-coated seals since 1987, and that the Inuit never killed white coats. "

Think of some other analogies next time and spare me the back chat - I've got no time for it when someone uses something 32 years out-of-date and incorect at that.


the salamander said...

.. its a very interesting point.. and the Clark reference is something I was not at all aware of.. way back then I thought politics was rather benign.. dull even.. Canada was 'managed' .. I was content. Mulroney shifted my awareness, My antenna raised, Harper put my systems on red alert when he won his majority.

I wonder at the strategy or bluff.. of challenging parties who may have blown their wad ($) to engage in another election. Scheer might not be around to even be the one who decides.. Singh et al might be the one who triggers an election, or the Bloc ? Why risk it. I think there will be a cautious year all round, but with the 'Conservatives' one just doesn't know.. they're pretty unhinged.. but ultimately absolute cowards.. shouters and snouters yes.. their bravado is baseless, useless.. poitical animal veneer

I believe Scheer et al benefitted from the attack and destroy of Bernier and his strange Political party and coterie via their selected vendor.. Daisy Group and Kinsella. Again Ms Amy MacPherson brings the heat, shines a light.. She unearthed via the 'Forever Archive', a quickly deleted paragraph of a Kinsella 'Statement' where he more or less takes the full blame, for doing the wrong thing.. . 'Split conservative vote ? What split ? Bernier et al were swept from the election board.. Kinsella says the 'work was completed months ago' - to attack and utterly destroy the Bernier PPC .. and utilize an arms length fictitious entity to avoid and evade 3rd party Election Law as well as mask & hide the client who paid. Does that ever smell like Election Fraud.. and who benefited..? Scheer, Hamish et al . Welcome to your Democracy, Harper style !

By the by.. it was Paul Watson - Sea Shepards - who said (paraphrased) ' Leave the heavy lifting re protective action in other areas and locales to us.. if everyone would look after things in their own backyard instead of protesting.. we would have things fixed a lot sooner. I take that to heart.. he is a champ and an exemplar.. an early co-founder of Greenpeace..

I also note that the term Newfie or Newfoundlander lumps First Nations in with folks of Irish stock or Channel Island heritage etc etc.. Just as 'Western Canada' somehow does not include British Columbia.. How odd ? Last I was blasting pow pow on my snowbard at Sunshine I straddled the Great Divide.. and did so at every opportunity. I knew the snow melted and ran west or east.. the giant moose, the wolverine.. up that way, knew of no stinkin border.. west was BC, east was Alberta.. once clear of the Rockies.. Alberta is most certainly 'prairie flatland' as is Saskatchewant, and Manitoba.. in reality, hardly 'the west' .. 4 million 'westerners' in British Columbia last I looked.. plus a trifling thing called The Pacific Ocean. Thus I tire of so called 'western' cowpoker whiners complaining about their 'discounted' diluted bitumen.. is that even 50 or 200 or 2 thousand trolls screaming to 'seperate. .. ?

My point of the previous two paragraphs ?? Give it a break re the baby seals .. its the 'gist' .. a manner of speaking .. if one must 'miss the point' - have at it, fill your boots.. aint a hanging offense.. Innuit in Newfoundland Labrador kill whales, shoot polar bears, kill baby seals, are they Newfoundlanders ? Well go ahead and ask them.. but remember what Paul Watson said next time you use Draino or condition your hair with microplastic loaded 'nutrients' or help fill garbage dumps with plastic bags.. I hope you 'catch my drift' here.. I caught Mound's 'drift' in one read.. maybe I'm just made older sterner stuff.. I am a farm boy.. I seen a few things.. few would or ever see or or will or even want to see. Arise from your fainting couches.. you too Simon, with all respect.. look after your backyards.. ya don't want Sea Shepherd's sniffin round your backyard

e.a.f said...

Simon, Trudeau is not the messiah. He is a politicians. He will form government and that ought to be enough.

I do know you don't care for the author of this blog, nor me, having banned me from your blog for suggesting Trudeau was a politician and that should he not be leading the Liberal Party and we had created the cult of Trudeau, we could be in trouble. Do remember Paul Martin was a Liberal and P.M. but he might as well have been a Conservative.

Yes, Mound I do remember Joe Clark well and his resignation even though he could have tried again, but he chose to let his government fall. At the time there was some chat about the GG telling him he didn't have to resign or some such thing.

A. they may not kill baby harp seals, but over here on Vancouver island, they do kill seals and such because they eat too many salmon. Now it isn't sanctioned by the DFO, but it happens. Its why a lot of fishermen carry shot guns on their boats. Same thing on fish farms.

Simon as I wrote on your blog some time ago, its best to be nice to the other parties. You may need them some day. leaders come and go, the party goes on. Saying nasty things about the Greens or NDP didn't help your cause or that of Jackie blue. Trudeau may say he is going to rule as he has a majority, but he isn't as nieve as Joe Clark was. He can say what he wants but you can bet he and Singh's reps. have already spoken. We've all heard Singh say he was prepared to support the Liberals. the Greens don't want a re do of the election either so they'll support the liberals also.

Regardless of what some of us think of the conservatives, we live in a democracy and they had 6,155,662 people vote for them. In a democracy they have that right. We have no right to disenfranchise these Canadians. Now over 10 Million of us voted for other parties, so there are more who didn't vote for the Conservatives.

When one tries to turn a politician into a messiah, you run the risk of having things turn out like they did in the U.S.A.. the cult of Trump hasn't turned out well. if you create the cult of Trudeau and he suddenly isn't in Parliament you could wind up with another Paul Martin in the drivers seat and in that case I'd rather have a Joe Clark in the driver's seat.

JWR was re elected here. As I wrote at the time, when she was kicked out of the party, you had no need to carry on as you did, along with Jackie Blue because it would be pretty much forgotten by the time the election came around. Didn't have much of a bearing on the out come of the election, but you're words do live on. JWR may well be the next leader of the federal Liberals. who will you support then?

Anonymous said...

Trudeau knows better than to govern like Clark tried. No coalition because he may need the support of different parties for various issues. Gee, that’s almost like proportional representation.

The Newfie reference is totally uncalled for. As is the constant name calling. Usually people resort to name calling because they can’t think of a good logical counterpoint - just like Trump. I’m disappointed in you, Mound.


the salamander said...

E.A.F. .. wins the prize.. I myself have oft wondered what Simon rants periodically on about.. somehow the rape in prison of Trudeau he rages about must have been before I encountered Mound's illuminating, even scholarly posts. Now its baby seals outrage.. I too periodically look in on Simon.. Odd how Simons and Kinsella's more recent commentators are polar opposites in terms of partisan belief, but equally shrill, even laughable in their partisan carrying on.. these are signs of the times.. the social media partisan times.. too bad Canada gets short shrift.. amidst partisan raging

the salamander said...

.. by the bye.. did anyone catch Vivian Krause tweeting Andrew the Scheer should resign ? Astonishing.. Sounds like she is firmly and fully entrenched in the Jason Kenney coven

Anonymous said...

I no longer visit Simon's blog either, Mound. There is an obsessive commenter named Jackie Blue who is obviously mentally ill and desperately needs help yet all Simon does is encourage her delusions and behavior. Shameful.


zoombats said...

Hey Mound. I found this post very stimulating and remember the time of Joe Clark and the tenuous path he had to tread. After the return of Trudeau we got the Muldoon and I don't need to wax on those times. What I find most stimulating and amusing, is that Simon would venture from his side of the street and insult you on yours. None of us would dare to insult him on his blog, if not blocked, for fear of being labelled homophobe, Con or Idiot (for voting Green) or various other names, Trudeau Haters ,etc.. I too choose not to read MS anymore because it is all too predictable. I still glance and on the day after the election it was all about the Trudeau win and the humiliation of Scheer, and even seemed to be the followers all acknowledging the contributions of Simon in securing that win. Maybe you should block him so we really don't have to listen to his BS., please

The Mound of Sound said...

The reference to Newfies, by the way, was not sinister. The Newfs I've known were never as thin-skinned as those frothing with indignation. People from those outports such as Twillingate wouldn't have lasted very long with your delicate sensibilities. If it causes you indigestion, don't come here. Last I checked I didn't issue anyone an engraved invitation.

Someone mentioned fishermen killing seals off Vancouver Island. First point, not industrially. Second, when we catch them they're fully prosecuted. The guys I know grumble but won't dare shoot one. There was a fellow though who thought to shoot a seal near here. It was on 9/11. Really. And he was fishing just off RCAF Comox. The skies were full of military aircraft, Canadian and American. The guy was being watched from the air base control tower. Bad, bad judgment. They were on him like flies on rice. That guy has two reasons to never forget 9/11.

The Mound of Sound said...

Returning to the issue of minority government, let's recall that Harper had minorities as did Paul Martin and Pierre Trudeau before him. Mike Pearson never had a majority and yet he did a masterful job.

Harper had some advantages. He was up against chronically weak Liberal leaders, two of them. And he was able to play Jack Layton off against the Liberals time and again once he realized the NDP were more interested in power than what Harper was up to.

Chretien showed that, if you have an opposition deeply divided and at each other's throat, it's really easy to win a majority. He just had to sit back and watch Reform/Alliance and the PCs dismember each other. It was pushing on an open door and Chretien made the most of it.

The Tories could 'reverse engineer' that if they can prevent Trudeau from accommodating the NDP and Greens. Stir them up, spark a cat fight, and Conservative fortunes could permit a comeback in four years (or less). How long will it take for the Tories to launch a major fundraising drive?

As for the carbon tax controversy, the following post demonstrates that conditions are more dire today than they were in the days when carbon taxes were a viable option. It explains how we have underestimated the risks and urgency of the climate crisis both scientifically and economically. A carbon tax at this point is whistling past the graveyard. We are being overtaken by events. Justin needs to skip ahead a few pages and get caught up. I don't think he can do it.

Owen Gray said...

Justin is going to have to dance very carefully. He should take a couple of lessons from Lester Pearson.

Northern PoV said...

First of all ...
Joe Clark
(with more integrity in his little toe than the entire current CON cabal)
is the ONLY conservative leader that has defeated a Trudeau.

UU: "No coalition because he may need the support of different parties for various issues."
Yup, it is gong to be a long four years ... and the light at the end of the tunnel?

Bloc support for SNC-court-bypass
NDP support for welfare state tinkering
CON support for TMX and whatever neo-Lib projects Freeland buys into

Anonymous said...

Calling a Newfounlander a Newfie is in comparison to the Newfoundland dog first coined by FDR. Yes...the First Nations in Labrador still kill animals for their survival but Newfoundlanders do not and have not for some time. As for Paul McCartney or that French Actress....neither got out on the panes of ice and both did not witness any such killing of Harp Seals at all.

e.a.f. said...

Yes, once Jackie Blue showed up along, with an A. the tone of the blog simply changed over at Montreal Simon. Jackie blue advised, he/shewere American and waxed on ad naseum about how much they loved Canada, etc. Attacking Trudeau was not to be done. Jackie Blue would go off the scale. My take on it was, perhaps the writers were in fact trolls sent to insert some "friction" between lefties. Jackie Blue came out of no where and just got with it. Very strange. My thought was, perhaps they were a Russian troll. The attacks which were launched by them and picked up by Simon and A. were very strange. At one time they determined I was an Indigenous male, who was not doing my "people" any favours by writing what I did. In their opinions only Trudeau could "save" the Indigenous People. What a load of racist crap. Just a bunch of white folks telling Indigenous people what they ought to think. Then the attacks on JWR were simply vitriolic. In my opinion they were verging on racism.

I had read the blog for approx. 10 years and commented freely, until I was kicked off for contradicting Jackie Blue, A. and Simon regarding Trudeau. I wasn't that I said anything negative about him, just took the position he was not the messiah and this was a democracy so all people need to be represented and hence the need for the federal Conservative party.

If Simon every comes by to read this, I'm Caucasian, born in Europe. I'm about as white as they come. Although I do consider it a compliament that some of you on your blog thought I was Indigenous.